As DevOps matures, and the "shift-everything-left" philosophy gains ascendancy, there's a movement to automate all--or most--phases of testing. However, there are some critical functions that may resist automation. In fact, contrary to the "automate-everything" impetus, human testers won't ever go away. Indeed, human testers need to be more involved, and earlier in the development process. In this podcast, Mike Kavis and guest, Angie Jones, discuss the human aspect of testing and how humans add significant value by assessing the system as a whole, helping developers design better code, and determining the level of testing automation that should occur.

I've tested application where it's core functionality that we were selling was you know it has machine learning. And so your app will work better as time goes on. And so it was a really interesting experience for me. Everyday applications that we use right now. We don't necessarily realize that there's machine learning in there such as Netflix.